Thank you ADCMS for posting the follow-up article. It's good to bring these 'Solid scriptural' articles that are soon flip-flopped, out in the open for newer JW's that never saw these gems..
Newly Enlightened
JoinedPosts by Newly Enlightened
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107
HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!
by Gojira_101 inlast week a friend of mine contacted me out of the blue asking if we could have lunch together.
my friend has been studing with the jw's on and off for about 11-12 years i think.
she has told me everytime i see her that she can't wait for jehovah to end this evil world...she can't wait for the new system...the end is so close....etc.. i sent her a message back telling her that i left the jw's and asked her if she had heard that.
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107
HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!
by Gojira_101 inlast week a friend of mine contacted me out of the blue asking if we could have lunch together.
my friend has been studing with the jw's on and off for about 11-12 years i think.
she has told me everytime i see her that she can't wait for jehovah to end this evil world...she can't wait for the new system...the end is so close....etc.. i sent her a message back telling her that i left the jw's and asked her if she had heard that.
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Newly Enlightened
ADCMS: VERY GOOD point! How can they BOTH be solidily based on scripture when they are total opposites! Hubby says "I have a beer waiting for you here in the future."
Reminds me of the WT 1972 1/1 pg 32: Question from readers [ Pasted below] BUT then 11 months later CHANGED it AGAIN
*Lost* Thank you for the wonderful compliment. We enjoy discussing things with you also. I hope you're feeling better today. It is very traumatic when you learn the lies.
Love & Hugs
WT 1972 1/1
Questions
Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?—U.S.A.Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: “Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”—Matt. 19:9.
Thus “fornication” is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.
The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 “fornication” is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that “everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became “one flesh,” and then added: “What God has yoked together let no man put apart.” (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become “one flesh” in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: “Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.”—1 Cor. 15:39.
While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
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Oh, wise one, answer me THIS!
by stillin ini bought a large container of strawberries.
my daughter is disfellowshipped.
may i consider it "necessary family business" to give her some of them to share with my grandchildren?
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Newly Enlightened
Stillin. Don't let a religion dictate to you what love and compassion you can show to your children.
Thomas doubted Jesus, but Jesus never shunned him. No, he patiently showed him the nail prints and knife mark. Peter denied Jesus 3 times! Then a few days later Jesus is giving him the keys to the kingdom.
Because of this religion my mom & siblings shunned my little brother because he was gay, even tho he was never baptized. He ended up committing suicide. How could a parent live with themselves after something like that? I couldn't bear it. Could they be held accountable for bloodguilt?
I don't know that is between them & Christ. But I wouldn't want to take that chance and lose my only kid.
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HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!
by Gojira_101 inlast week a friend of mine contacted me out of the blue asking if we could have lunch together.
my friend has been studing with the jw's on and off for about 11-12 years i think.
she has told me everytime i see her that she can't wait for jehovah to end this evil world...she can't wait for the new system...the end is so close....etc.. i sent her a message back telling her that i left the jw's and asked her if she had heard that.
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Newly Enlightened
Sorry ADCMS: I guess I should have asked you before we volunteered your services regarding the old literature.
But Jen2013 & Lost we should be able to get you almost any old literature you need.
Sweetie, you're right. The WT taught us too well because we now can also use their OWN literature against them.
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YHWH v YHVH - yes, V not W
by *lost* ingod's real name and identity yhvh.
yhwh - fraudulent identity.. .
can we all sue wt for evidenced fraud and deliberate deception ??
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Newly Enlightened
I sa 14:12-14 NWT
2 “O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations! 13As for you, you have said in your heart, ‘To the heavens I shall go up. Above the stars of God I shall lift up my throne, and I shall sit down upon the mountain of meeting, in the remotest parts of the north. 14 I shall go up above the high places of the clouds; I shall make myself resemble the Most High.’
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What to say if JW tells you the big A is coming very soon, Jehovah's day will come here like a thief? etc..
by Iamallcool ini like terry's topic about noah's day not being armageddon enough.
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Newly Enlightened
An elder in our congregation just used that on me a few months ago. I told him that I had been told that for 49 years now, i went thru the 1975 fiasco, I ain't buying it anymore.
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Maybeso
by MaybeSo inim very sad, upset and disappointed all at the same time.
why couldnt i just stay away from this dam forum and live my life and blindly dedicated it to the borg.
now i know ttatt, i cant ignore all the facts and all the stories of the great people in this forum.
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Newly Enlightened
Welcome Maybeso! We're glad you're here with us and know the 'real' truth now. I know it's difficult and there will be some rough times ahead, but like my daughter Gojira said, just take your time.
It does get easier.
Peace be with you on your journey.
NE
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Trying to handle my JW mom
by KatyMomof2 inmy mom is a recent widow.
she, being a jw does not have means to support herself and does not seek higher education ( because that would take from her studies ).
so, she is living ( sponging off of ) me.
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Newly Enlightened
Welcome Katymomof2! Glad to have you here with us on this forum.
It's difficult when it's our parents and we've all been taught to respect them. But that works both ways. She has to respect you now as an adult and a mother yourself.
I had nightmares as a child because of my parents telling me about the demons and armeggeddon. So plese, protect your kids. It can have long-lasting damaging effects.
NE
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HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!
by Gojira_101 inlast week a friend of mine contacted me out of the blue asking if we could have lunch together.
my friend has been studing with the jw's on and off for about 11-12 years i think.
she has told me everytime i see her that she can't wait for jehovah to end this evil world...she can't wait for the new system...the end is so close....etc.. i sent her a message back telling her that i left the jw's and asked her if she had heard that.
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Newly Enlightened
Jen2013 & *Lost*: Those articles I listed are from the 2011 WT Lib CD. ADCMS is correct, the WT's are available back to 1950. There is also a Catholic Website that has preserved & scanned most of Russell & Rutherfraud's writings & books:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/jwhistory.html
Welcome Jen2013, glad to have you here with us. If you have any questions or need any old literature, Don't call me Shirley or us, can try to help you.
A couple of experiences that I know of personally. My nephew's wife, before they were married. She was not baptized and the day she turned 18 her parents kicked her out. She had no job yet, no place to go. Thankfully since her & my nephew were already planning on getting married when she finished school they hurried and got married.
Another one: Hubby's cousin, was DF'd and seen her Mom in the mall and went up to hug her and say hi, but her mom pushed her away physically and said "You know the rules, you made the choice, now get out of my face"!
This org. does nothing but foster hatred and no tolerance, even for family members. And done allegedly in the name of God and love.
Our own JW family has not talked to us since Jan of this year. My little brother, who was never baptized but raised a JW, came out of the closet and was gay. My mother & siblings shunned him and he ended up committing suicide.
So, they may not actually put it in black & white, but it is inferred. But I also understand how the deaf community has difficulty understanding these rules, just like they don't understand sarcasm when communicating with the hearing because they cannot 'hear' the tone.
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107
HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!
by Gojira_101 inlast week a friend of mine contacted me out of the blue asking if we could have lunch together.
my friend has been studing with the jw's on and off for about 11-12 years i think.
she has told me everytime i see her that she can't wait for jehovah to end this evil world...she can't wait for the new system...the end is so close....etc.. i sent her a message back telling her that i left the jw's and asked her if she had heard that.
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Newly Enlightened
Black Sheep: Gojira's Dad & I were JW's for 45+ yrs each, so believe me, we do kind of know what we're talking about. So if you haven't read Ray Franz's book Crisis of Conscience pgs 357-377 I highly recommend it.
For having WT literature to back up what we say here it is:
WT 1980 9/15 pg 25:
NOT SHARING IN WICKED WORKS
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All faithful Christians need to take to heart the serious truth that God inspired John to write: “He that says a greeting to [an expelled sinner who is promoting an erroneous teaching or carrying on ungodly conduct] is a sharer in his wicked works.”—2 John 11.
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Many of Christendom’s commentators take exception to 2 John 11. They claim that it is ‘unchristian counsel, contrary to the spirit of our Lord,’ or that it encourages intolerance. Yet such sentiments emanate from religious organizations that do not apply God’s command to “remove the wicked man from among yourselves,” that seldom if ever expel even notorious wrongdoers from their churches. (1 Cor. 5:13) Their “tolerance” is unscriptural, unchristian.—Matt. 7:21-23; 25:24-30; John 8:44.
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But it is not wrong to be loyal to the righteous and just God of the Bible. He tells us that he will accept ‘in his holy mountain’ only those who walk faultlessly, practice righteousness and speak truth. (Ps. 15:1-5) If, though, a Christian were to throw in his lot with a wrongdoer who has been rejected by God and disfellowshiped, or has disassociated himself, that would be as much as saying ‘I do not want a place in God’s holy mountain either.’ If the elders saw him heading in that direction by regularly keeping company with a disfellowshiped person, they would lovingly and patiently try to help him to regain God’s view. (Matt. 18:18; Gal. 6:1) They would admonish him and, if necessary, ‘reprove him with severity.’ They want to help him remain ‘in God’s holy mountain.’ But if he will not cease to fellowship with the expelled person, he thus has made himself ‘a sharer (supporting or participating) in the wicked works’ and must be removed from the congregation, expelled.—Titus 1:13; Jude 22, 23; compare Numbers 16:26.